AYATOLLAH SO! The DSA Is on the Way

Segment 1: El-Sayed Wins Michigan

0:12 You found yourself at the intersection of policy, politics, and culture. Your own sabbatical with Doc G and the Discussants. To contact the program or maybe email a favorite discussant, find us on the World Wide Web at docgandthediscussants .com. Now, here's Doc G. There's that massive studio audience again. It doesn't sound like a massive studio audience. It sounds like a group of people in the depths of Hades and the fire has turned upon them. Well, hey, there's a different opinion on the massive studio audience that we manage to pack into this place every day for yet another show.

1:20 Hey, welcome in to Doc G and the Discussants. Alongside, it's the professor today and Sarah. And boy, do we have fun for you today. You know for the last three shows we've been asking whether changing attitudes towards capitalism, socialism, and American institutions are merely interesting poll results or whether they are beginning to change American politics. We had a little result in Michigan that the country seemed to be quite interested in and they may have given us something more concrete to talk about or at least We think so.

2:02 Abdul El -Sayed has won the Democratic... Wait a minute, are you, wait, wait, wait, are you talking now, are you in Saudi Arabia? No, this happened in Michigan. Michigan. Abdul is in Michigan? Yeah, and as Mr. Piker would say, what did he say? Your anti -Islamophobic pieces... Well, for one thing, you said America deserves 9 -11. Right. Well, here's something else he said. He said you're an Islamophobic piece of, you know, excrement for asking the question you just asked. So congratulations, Tom.

2:41 You're now a piece of excrement. Anyway, he's won the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate in one of the most important swing states in the country. So the opening question is, so what exactly did Michigan Democrats vote for and what, if anything, does it tell us about where the Democratic Party and its voters are going? I'd like to give you the President's view on that real quickly, if I might. Communism is the greatest threat to our country in its history, including even World War I, World War II, Pearl Harbor, 9 -11.

3:22 I think it's the greatest threat. I could be the greatest communist in history. I tell everybody here, would you like a free house? We'll take one from your neighbor. Would you like free rent? We'll take it from whoever. We'll take your building away from the landlord that makes 2%. And we'll rent the building ourselves. What they don't say, and what Republicans should say, is that at the end of a year, you'll have nothing but death, squalor, poverty. You'll have a life of hell. So there you are.

3:57 I think the president has it correct. And I think that maybe the party generally is starting to take these things very seriously. Hey man, let me give you the low life response to that. Hey man, the American dream is out of reach for me, and it's going to stay the hell out of reach. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to starve unless we get a commie in office. I can send me a check each month so I can at least eat and survive, but hell, in this Republican situation, this current president, this GOP, I ain't getting nothing from them except heartache and I'm hungry, so there you go.

4:41 So, Mr. Real Man, can we count on your vote then in the general to back Mr. El -Sayed? Oh, I love Mr. Abdul El -Sayed and the communists. Go Commies, go! Well, here's who this guy is. So, Abdul El -Sayed is a physician. He's an epidemiologist. And he's the former Detroit health director. He narrowly defeated what he is. I heard he was a doctor, but I didn't know if it was like Dr. Jill or what? That's what I'm here for is to take the test. Yeah, that's what I'm here for is to fill these blanks in for everybody.

5:35 He narrowly defeated U .S. Representative Haley Stevens, who was a female for real. Now, this is not my idea. This has been bandied about now for a week. Oh, wow, that was loud. Orville, right in our ears. That's my bird. That's my bird, my parrot. He's broadcasting right along with me. She looked like Chris Farley. Down by the river the guy who used to do the motivational speaker down by the river Yeah, I mean she did so I thought that that was an accurate description she was a horrible candidate and and this guy narrowly very narrowly won that election but They had they had all their money in this James Carville was not happy said that You know, basically the party had shot their wad.

6:32 That's his words, not mine. Yeah, on this election. This is a family show. We can't shoot wads here. Well, James Cardful apparently did. And the nomination. She now faces Republican Mike Rogers in November. Stevens had substantial support, as I said, including the governor, Gretchen Whitmer and retiring Senator Gary Peters. El Saeed, nonetheless, prevailed in a race flooded with outside spending. I'd like to know exactly how much money that El Saeed got from outsiders. I'll bet a lot more than he'd like to admit.

7:11 So Rutgers describes this guy as the first progressive in the cycle to win statewide in the state office and in a state that was carried by President Trump. And, you know, that by itself It doesn't prove an ideological transformation, but it makes Michigan harder to dismiss as simply another safe blue district, electing a candidate from the left, which is something that Tom and I and Sarah and I have had a lot of discussions about over the last two weeks. I have said, and I'm happy to be on record with this, it's coming to a precinct near you.

7:49 And the reason why is because these people are indeed now speaking to the chorus. And so let's just throw it out there a little bit. Why does this matter or does it matter? How do you see this? Is this actually how some people are characterizing it? Is a real change or is it not a change? Is it a one off? I'll tell you after listening to him a little bit. He reminds me a lot of Barack Obama in his rhetoric. And so I'm not really surprised on a lot of levels. Plus with the energy of the Democratic Socialists, which he is very careful to say he is not.

8:39 I heard him say that. Yeah, well, yeah. And he's sat for a couple interviews where he insisted on that. although there is no daylight between he and those particular policies. One of his policies, and we'll talk about his exact policies when we come back in the second segment, but that's then and this is now. One of the things that we laughed about last night, Sarah and I, he wants Medicaid for all, basically. tell Sarah works in the healthcare industry and it was very interesting that his wife runs a medical outfit I think is a physician yeah she doesn't take she doesn't accept Medicare here's a guy that wants Medicare at all his family doesn't accept Medicare at their business.

9:42 So there's the, you know, there's the dedication to their own particular policy. So what's this mean? I'll throw it to Tom. Does it mean anything? Or is it a one off? Or what do you think? Once again, it boils down to that. I guess the haves and the have nots. I guess these people want to level everyone out to where everyone's miserable together. That's what it seems like the bottom line is it seems like it's us versus them Maybe you should clarify that talk to you. You're more civil than I am Yeah, well, I just thought I'd let you guys be uncivil about this.

10:24 Let's ask Sarah Sarah What do you think do you think it means? What do you think it means? Is it a one -off or what? Do you think is this? Scenes of things to come. Is it trailer? Is it a movie trailer? We're gonna see this over and over again. Is it gonna be?

10:41 I'm afraid if they have any purchase here that maybe we'll all be living in double wide somewhere. That's exactly right Well, I'm fine until you ask them why don't you give your stuff you want everybody else to give everything that they have to everybody why aren't you giving yours to everybody yeah it's it seems like it's good exactly right good for you not so much for me right and we've caught them in this many times We're standing here, what was it, the Golden Globes or was it the Academy Awards?

11:28 It's probably a little bit of both where it seemed like everyone presenting a award had to walk up on stage and describe the land they were standing on and how it had been stolen. It was several presenters that did that. And then, well, I'll tell you who specifically got caught in that last time. It was Billie Eilish. And then, I mean, she was caught, and one of the first times ever that she was asked, well, give yours back, and didn't really want to do that, so. Let's end with El Saeed, or this segment, in his own words.

12:05 They're out there. I meet them at almost every event I go to. So we're building a big, broad coalition, truly a big tent of people that combines folks from DSA on one side, even if I'm not a socialist. and combine three -time Trump voters, even if I've never voted for Donald Trump. Are you concerned about being labeled a socialist? I think that folks who come here, like, with two weeks left in the election, really, really want to label me a socialist. I don't know why, except for maybe it fits into a nice telling of a broader national story.

12:36 But I'm a scientist, right? And I like solutions that solve problems. That's the approach that I've always taken. I don't do ideology. I'd rather think of myself as a capitalist who actually read about capitalism. in the sense that the biggest risk to capitalism was always going to be corporate consolidation and monopoly rather than government regulation. In fact, you need some government regulation to make sure that capitalism runs well. I want to make sure that our capitalism is functional rather than allowing big corporations to buy politicians to rig the system against us.

13:05 You are not a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. They did not endorse you, but we know that there are DSA members. So what we got there was the slick answer for, yeah, I'm a socialist, but, you know, it was... He said it himself, relax. Right. He was asked in another interview about his views on Israel, and it was even more protracted than that. It took two minutes for him to explain it. And basically, he's not separating himself from this ideology at all. He's not doing that. But he's explaining it through a lens that's a little more friendly in terms of capitalism.

13:52 So when we come back, we'll take a look at a little bit more of that. And after the break, we'll forget the labels, progressive socialists or... leftist, those words can conceal as much as they reveal. What did Abdul Saeed actually run on? That's when we... I love the sound of that name. At the intersection of policy, politics, and culture on the World Wide Web, the Doctor is in. Doc G and the Discussants.

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16:33 and the discussants. Here's the doctor.

Segment 2: El-Sayed’s Platform

16:56 Yeah, we're back for round two of this thing today, talking about the developments in Michigan. Gonna try to make a little bit of sense about whether this actually means anything or not. And of course, by the time we're finished with it, we will have answered that question fully and to the greatest extent possible. So if we are going to say that this election means something, then we ought to be a little bit more precise about the program voters were offered. So as we mentioned a little earlier, in health care, El Saeed supports Medicare for All and a much larger federal role in health care, including lower prescription drug costs and a stronger action against large health care corporations.

17:43 Wow. That sounds good, doesn't it? Even though my wife doesn't accept it at her business. Economically, he supports higher taxes on billionaires, wealth, stronger unions and wages, tougher antitrust enforcement, and greater accountability for Wall Street and large corporations. Who does that sound like? Right out of Bernie Sanders' book for the last 40 years. In housing, his agenda calls for Major federal housing investment, restrictions on large corporate purchases of homes, stronger protections for renters, and restrictions on algorithmic rent setting.

18:25 Education and family, this should surprise no one on this panel today. He supports universal child care and pre -K and greater federal investment in public education. Political institutions, he supports overturning Citizens United. public financing and spending restrictions in elections, eliminating the Senate filibuster and pursue eliminating the Senate as well. Why just get rid of the Senate then you don't need to get rid of the filibuster and pursuing Supreme Court reform. That's another way of saying we either want to limit terms or flood it to the place where there's so many justices that it would no longer be functional.

19:10 He supported abolishing ICE, and so there is in a nutshell what this guy's about. Now that we've put the policies on the table, what do we call this? Is it mainstream democratic politics? Is it democratic socialism, economic populism, a new deal, you know, sort of in the FDR sense? Something else, more importantly, did voters choose this program or did they choose the candidate despite parts of it? Well, I don't know who wants it first. I'll throw it to Sarah. What do you think? What do you think they were voting for in Michigan?

19:47 Because, you know, like it or not, this is the first one of these guys to win statewide and when that happens, you know, we've entered into a new era here. It was a Democratic primary, but he won it and he won it against the Democratic establishment. I think a lot of times people vote for parts. We hear this a lot. I don't vote for a particular party. I vote for the person I think is best for whatever reason. I don't know that most of us agree with that, but it does happen. So I don't know that people are voting for him as a whole or just for the parts that they like.

20:38 And that applies. to them. Interesting. Tom? Ideas? Well, it's a simple thing. I think that people who maybe think they're logical and down to earth and sincere, they would go to this El Saeed. They think, oh yeah, he sounds good. This sounds like something that might work. No. And then, of course, what I keep saying, we have the three classes. We have the sincere people saying, OK, let's give this guy a try. Sounds logical. And of course, the elites think, oh boy, it's like Bernie Sanders in these, whatever he has.

21:19 Not as many mansions as Mick Jagger. And yet he's trying to get everyone else to eat cake, or whatever it is. And then we have the desperate people who are always with it. And I don't know, maybe the majority. I don't see any opportunity for me. So all I want is the government to force other people to. sustain my life for me. So there you have your three classes of people who are voting for this disease. It's a disease. You say it's on the table. It's a disease on the table. It needs to be quashed.

21:50 And I don't know what it's going to take to quash it. Because as I said, we have some people that think, oh, well, let's give him a chance. Others that think, oh, I need him. There's no opportunity for me. And then, of course, the disease itself. Yeah. Maybe we could listen to Mamdani rap. Maybe there's a message in his rap. Yeah, what what it reads. So as I read down through these list of policies that he ran on and he's happy to explain, boy, you better have a few minutes if you're going to ask him a question because he's he's much better than Vice President Harris.

22:30 When you ask her to explain something, she had another one of those incidents. by the way, where she was describing cooking, sort of like she described the passing of time as the passing of time by defining a word by using the word. One of those things. He's much, much better than that. In fact, again, he reminds me a lot of Barack Obama in that he always frames his discussion in terms of hope and change and the aspirational platitudes of a A skillful politician, I think that we're gonna have to give him that he's very skillful in his articulation of this socialist agenda that he, by the way, again, disavows.

23:19 But as I read down through these policies, they sound pretty good. They sound like something that, why wouldn't everybody want this? You know, free healthcare, taxes on billionaires, because of course they've got too money. Too much money in someone's judgment more unions and higher wages who could be against that You know housing federal housing purchases of homes and universal childcare for gosh sakes As you read down through there, what could you possibly? What? Objection could you throw to all these nice new free things that this guy would love to give to you And I think that that's the disease that the professor is talking about.

24:10 It's called jealousy. It's called envy. It's called, well, the old green -eyed monster, which I guess is just another way to say envy and jealousy. It appeals to the worst in human nature in that I covet your property. And I'm not supposed to do that, but I not only just covet your property, I'm going to devise a lawful system in which I can take it from you. And that's what they appeal to. They appeal to the very worst in human nature. And it is so insidious, and this is the reason why it has won worldwide.

24:56 It has won worldwide. Now, the professor and I were having a little session last night with the equipment and we were talking about this particular subject and we went back, harkened back to a question that we had in the very first show where what is it that we do about this where they take advantage of people's darkest nature and they gain power with it. only to overthrow the greatest country on the face of the globe. Now, I don't think that can actually happen. I think it could come close. I think it could.

25:41 So what do you do about it? Do we let them do this or do we adopt a stance that we have fought a cold war against this ideology? We fought wars in Korea and Vietnam against this ideology. We fought all through South America and we've been fighting skirmishes in Cuba, including the Bay of Pigs and CIA operations worldwide against communism. It was us against the Soviets for 40 years, 50 years. Do we allow this as part of the public discourse? And if we don't allow it as part of the public discourse, what does that say about the First Amendment?

26:24 I mean, that's in direct contradiction to the First Amendment, which... Yeah, that's what I said in show number one. It's our freedoms. It's allowing this crap to overtake us. Right. So, yeah, that's the question. How do we do it? Yeah, and again, like we went going back to the first show, I don't know, but I'm wondering if we aren't changed either way. If we would let it... take root and say we let it take power you don't take them out of power once they're in power they don't they don't go away you don't vote them out again they they keep it they they have to keep it in order to stay in power so do we just simply outlawed if we say these ideas we fought and won wars against and we just won't put up with it either way we're changed if we were to outlaw it we've changed the First Amendment if we allow it But maybe we change fundamentally as a country.

27:20 Which is worse? Does outlawing and audiology lead to the same thing? There are plenty who would argue that it does, and I might be among those people in certain circumstances. You know, food for thought, certainly. Before we get done with the segment, let's go back to the President's thoughts on this gentleman. And the Poles were wrong again last night when they thought it would be a landslide victory for a hater of Jews and a hater of Israel. This guy hates Jews. Somebody said, oh, that's a little strong.

27:58 No, he hates Jews and he hates Israel. Abdul el -Sayed, can you believe this?

28:07 This could only happen to me. Abdul El -Sayed, a lovely gentleman. He's a man of hate. And now he's going around saying, no, I love everybody I love. He doesn't love everybody. Put him in office. You're going to find out what he loves. He doesn't love Israel. He doesn't love Jewish people. He hates them. He hates them with a passion that burns in his heart and there's not a fricking thing he can do about it. The campaign. that Mike Rogers and Donald Trump and their GOP MAGA allies are launching is already more bitter.

28:44 All you gotta do is look at the ads you're already watching on TV, started today. You know, they think that you wanna use my whole name against me. And to all of my sisters and brothers of the Jewish faith or any faith at all or no faith at all, I want you to know that my commitment to your safety, my commitment to Jewish safety is the same commitment that I have To the safety of my own daughters. The same commitment that he had to the safety of his own daughters. Is he telling the truth? Does it sound like it?

29:17 And I think that was going to be my question. Does he sound sincere in that? We can't prove that either way. He, conjecture, it doesn't sound sincere to me at all. in other areas, he sounds very sincere, and I'm really up against it here, but I wanted to note again, I think that this guy has studied closely Barack Obama and his cadence in the way he speaks, and I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with in this campaign, because in the end, I think all the Democratic voters come home again, so.

29:58 What we want to do is get out of here for a second and come back, and when we do that, we'll take a look at his relationship with a gentleman named Hassan Piker. At the intersection of policy, politics, and culture, you're on sabbatical with Doc G and the Discussants. To contact the program or email your favorite discussant, write to docgshostudio at gmail .com. for the official Doc G and the Discussants merchandise, you'll find it on our website dgnd .com. Browse our sabbatical collection for premium tees, hoodies, signature women's v -necks, whiskey rocks glasses, distressed ball caps, coffee mugs, and more.

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Segment 3: Israel, Palestine, Hasan Piker & E

34:31 I'm in need of a support animal. You have a support animal for God's sakes. You have one right there on your shoulder. I think this show talks about the... need not to have one of those. And we all have one. And yet everyone here has one. We've got Beau here in the studio. You've got... You're all a bunch of damn hypocrites. Yeah, we are. I agree. That's the worst thing that could have happened. We've got support animals here. You've got one. My God, what's happening to us here? So we're talking about Mr. El -Sayed and his positions and his win.

35:11 It sounds a little like, you know, black team one, black team one, go. It sounds like a James Bond villain. Yeah, he certainly does. He may be. So let's talk a little bit about his position on Israel, Palestine, and his buddy Hassan. Piker, oh, Mr. Piker, you saw that you caught up with Mr. Piker not too long ago, didn't you? Tom? Oh, yeah, we had a really good time together. Yeah, it didn't. Wasn't he dressed appropriately for the occasion? Well, he had to say to some kind of military looking garb.

35:52 It was lovely. I was smitten. If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't going to make it with anyone anyway. Well, I think maybe he is making it anyhow these days. What do you think? Well, I heard he's driving a Porsche. Oh, really? That's beautiful, isn't it? It's perfect. Yeah, isn't it? So let's talk about his position on Israel. It's not simply conventional criticism of Benjamin Netanyahu or disagreement over the conduct of the Gaza War. His positions depart in significant ways from long -standing bipartisan U .S.

36:36 policy. On Israel and Gaza, El -Sahid has described... I better keep that word out of my mouth, shouldn't I? Has described... I don't know. I love it. It sounds so good. Thank you. Has described Israel's conduct in Gaza as genocide. He has called the Israeli government evil while also spreading it around evenly and called Hamas evil. Again, do you believe that? I kind of don't believe that's what he... No evidence? Conjecture only, but I just don't believe the guy. He supports withdrawing both offensive and defensive American military assistance to Israel, the right to exist question when asked.

37:18 Now, this is where I saw him interviewed, guys, just a little earlier today, and it took him two minutes, and this is what he does. He resists the conventional yes or no answer, but what he'll do is he'll question what it actually means to define Israel specifically as a Jewish state. And that takes him about two minutes to do that. So without saying that he doesn't support Israel, he'll take two minutes to say he doesn't support Israel. But by the time he gets to the end of it, you're so tired, you know, you've quit paying attention to him.

37:53 The Temple Israel incident, after the attack on the Temple Israel in West Bloomfield, El -Said explicitly said nothing justified the attack, but he also said hurt people in this sort of lefty, woke way, said hurt people do hurt people, and argued that events thousands of miles away can affect life in Michigan. Critics heard that as rationalizing violence against a synagogue, and El -Sayed's position was that explaining causes is not the same thing as justifying violence. The guy is good at twisting things around, so...

38:35 These guys are so intellectual that I just believe anything they say. Well, what he'll do is he'll wear you out. He'll just start down a path, and you know what he's answering. But he'll sprinkle it with so such a big word salad that you just get tired and you give up. And I think that most people just, you know, they say, well, no, he's he doesn't support this or he does support that when actually he's telling you, but you just don't have time. To listen to it all. Sleep, you know, the thing I don't want to lose, whoever, whatever I want to retain the drag queen shows for elementary school kids.

39:17 That's one of my favorites. I love the drag queens and the great schools. Oh, yes. Yeah, that's part of his pop is loving all people and making room for all people. And without saying it, the signal is certainly there. Then there is Mr. Piker. El Said deliberately campaigned with this guy, the enormously popular political streamer at Michigan events aimed in part or mostly at younger voters, which we've talked about. for now several shows. We even brought in the Harvard poll of youth in the show previous to this and talked about their specific proclivities on capitalism and socialism.

40:01 It was the latest survey and we see love for capitalism going up among nearly every group, including Republican youth, which I don't know how you are Republican and that's where your position is. I think it's just. strictly confusion on the part of those young people, but he's made inflammatory statements about the United States -Israel and Israel -Palestinian conflict, and in June said Israel in its current formulation does not have a right to exist. Now this is Piker, which doesn't surprise me.

40:35 He's a flamethrower for certain. And so why does Piker even matter? He's not simply stumbled into this association. El Saeed, I am referring to, he has defended appearing with Piker as part of reaching people outside the conventional democratic politics and media. That makes the relationship politically relevant because El Saeed apparently believes that Piker's audience is worth whatever political costs might come with it. So, with that. as a foundation. I just love these two guys. They are so cool.

41:14 I love these two guys. So the last I saw them together, they were at a pool party. Right. And, you know, another old chestnut of socialism, communism, a backyard pool. Piker probably drove his Porsche to it. Looked extremely cool jumping out with his sunglasses with his buddy El Said on the other side in his black t -shirt. Jumping out of the Porsche on the other side. I love tight -fitting black t -shirts. I wear those all the time. So what's that say about you, sir? Oh, it says I'm digging biker in Saeed.

41:52 That's sort of what I thought. Sarah, you've seen this guy in his black t -shirt and his Ray -Bans. pool parties. I think you had something to say about it, actually. I don't know about that, but I do think that they appeal to a younger audience, and they are very influential on social media. So that targets a pretty large group of people, I think. Well, that would make sense, because as we noted just a little bit earlier, that makes the relationship politically relevant because el -saeed apparently believes that even though piker is likely a liability with especially mainstream democratic party which gosh guys i'm going to go out my limb and say i don't really believe that exists anymore hey when when they talk about the mainstream democratic party who do they go to hillary clinton i mean she's nearly you know gone in more ways than one It's James Carville.

43:05 He has been around forever, although anybody who wants to question his strategy is selling it short because he's extremely astute. I mean, he got Clinton elected after he was caught in a scandal that heretofore caused the end of every political career. And he shepherded him through that. He and Stephanopoulos, of course, and of course, everybody's familiar with the war room and how quickly they responded to these sorts of things. So James Carville is an operator. And I think that some of his commentary has been that he doesn't want to be in the party with this guy, is what he said today.

43:50 And some of it, I think he personally believes the other is operative. in trying to signal to other mainstream Democrats that this is no guy for us. Tom, any ideas? No guy for us. It reminds me of the movie, No Country for Old Men. I don't know. The whole thing is just disappointing and disgusting, but it comes down to, you said young people and opportunities in this matter. A few minutes ago, somebody said the animal was terrible, but you're a young person. Which choice? What do you want to do?

44:24 Do you want to... Do you actually want to try to achieve some kind of prudential, either in some kind of finishing school or a trade? Do you want to put out that much effort, or do you just want to say, oh, let's put Piker's ilk, the kings he makes, in office, and they can just hand me stuff, because that's so much easier. And I'll be assured of a... appear like who that was that girl back in that was in biden they were talking about taking care of some words that obama is julia i know somebody you're going to take the life of julia i want to say that was i want to say that was obama pretty sure that was Obama, yeah, the life of Julie.

45:08 But I think Biden had his own version. Didn't he have pajama boy? Or was that, or do I have that backwards? One of them had pajama boy and the other one had the life of Julie. This was a cartoon and it showed Julie at various stages of life and how the government would be taking care of Julie at various stages of life. And so, you know, that argument I think is, or that... observation I think is important because this there's nothing new here really and I think there's a lot of What I want to say the old guard Democrats that are doing a little bit of belly -aching But which one of these policies that we've talked about can't they fully get behind?

45:49 except for the Israel thing Professor did you hear anything? I want you to enlighten me. I mean, what is the problem with Jews? It seems like these people The use of the word Nazi is one of the things driving the current political violence or the level of political violence that people are extremely concerned about and I don't know that there's any empirical proof of that but It's an extreme charge. Both sides have sort of said that. Having said that, I think that there's a larger issue here and maybe more important that support of Jewish people is not necessarily the same thing as support of Israel.

46:52 On many issues, That may be so, but both sides parse this to their advantage. And I think we'll explore that when we come back from the break. You're listening to Doc G and the Discussance. way, pay a visit to docgnd .com. Meet the discussants, inspect the website, leave a question, challenge a finding, suggest a future topic, or simply let us know what's on your mind. We'll reconvene shortly. Every successful show has great sponsors. If you'd like to introduce your business to our audience, we'd like you to consider our tremendous sponsorship opportunities.

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50:25 Eyes forward, don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Welcome back for the last segment

Segment 4: DSA, Democrats & Where This Is Goi

50:50 of today's show. We're always happy to have you along And I want to invite you once again to stop by the website. It's docgandthediscussance .com. There, you will find a way to interact with the show. You can send us emails, tell us what you like and what you'd like to see us cover on subsequent shows. You can also leave a note for Doc's gripe box. going to start doing that on the Friday edition of the show where we're just going to air your gripes and Maybe try to make some sense of them or maybe just air them Hey, the professor made a really good point in the previous segment when he suggested that you know what People are basically saying is if you just don't support Jews that that's sort of Equates one side or another or a certain group with being a Nazi Well, I think that's a little much Doesn't mean people don't say that and it is adding to a toxic political discourse because that's sort of the nuclear bomb of Argument you're a nazi and it's kind of over with but I will say that in the debate about Anti -semitism there is some confusion and I don't really know that it's confusion other than a tool to say If you don't support the Jewish state, well then that is anti -Semitism.

52:32 I don't think that's necessarily so. I think it would be exactly the same as not supporting a particular policy of the United States and calling someone unpatriotic, and that is certainly not the case. But this is sort of a cudgel used on the right. If you don't support... the government in Israel or Mr. Netanyahu and those sorts of things that represent the government, then it's much easier to say that you're anti -Semitic. I'm not saying that happens in every situation, but it happens maybe a little too often.

53:08 Now, on the other side, on the left, folks sort of like to hide behind that just a touch. While I'm quite sure there is anti -Semitism, and I think it's everywhere, I know it's everywhere, on the left, the excuse can be, well, we're just criticizing the government, even while there is clear anti -Semitism involved. So, Nazism? Big that's a big word that I'm not sure really belongs in the political discourse at this point I do think it's a way to get people way too excited but the support for Israel versus Anti -Semitism is something that I think that needs to be a little more carefully considered So another thing that I need to make a point about is I said coming into that break What is the difference between?

54:09 Democrat policy generally and the DSA, or some of the things that we've been talking about. Well, there's really quite a bit of difference. I sort of subjected that the only difference was on Israel. That's just not so. That's an overgeneralization of the situation. Gemini generally don't, they're not supporting abolishing the Senate. They're not supporting abolishing police. defunding police, those sorts of things. But we have heard plenty about abolishing ICE, defunding ICE, and not supporting immigration policy as folks on the right would like to have it enforced.

54:53 So there is more daylight than maybe ICE, well, there's more daylight than I suggested, and I shouldn't have made an overgeneralization in that way. So wanted to be in the last couple of minutes here because gosh, we're out of time again We the last segment went long I want to alert you to the fact that we will be talking about the Iran conflict on the next show of Doc G and the discussions and we hope that you'll be right here front row center grab your seat early we're going to talk about where we started this thing and How it's progressed what?

55:33 the administration's lines have been from the beginning and how they've progressed up until the very recent past. And this is very interesting to see how these messages have changed. I myself have forgotten about some of them and some very early statements in the very early days of the Trump administration that there's been some obvious things. that the promise is broken and this has caused fractures between the president and some of his supporters. I think it would be interesting to explore that along with just where do we sit in this conflict and what might we expect to happen next.

56:17 Once again, it's our pleasure to have you along. But here at Doc G and the discussions on sabbatical again, we encourage you to go to the website Leave us a note and Make sure that you take a look at the store support the show. There's an easy way to do that You'll instantly be issued a general admission ticket to the show if you support us and There's larger levels of support for those of you who would like to become sponsors of the show We're gonna do some special things for people who do this very early.

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