Ruined Before They Start: Sports-Betting Apps, Teen Gambling, Young Adults and Gambling Debt.

he Teenage Gambling Crisis Hiding in Plain Si

0:14 Before today's program begins, a few rules. No one will lean into anything. Nothing will be unpacked unless it arrived in a box. We will not circle back, move the needle, or tell you what something means at the end of the day. And should a talking point enter the studio unattended, it will be removed immediately. What we will do is examine the evidence, say what we actually think, disagree when necessary, and see where the discussion takes us. From Doc G Studios, Doc G and the Discussants. On sabbatical, the doctor is in.

0:58 Welcome into a Wednesday. Certainly glad to have you along. You know, these shows drop Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And if you want to make sure that you get them without having to worry about whether you actually get up in the morning to get them or you forget, the way to do that, at least in, I guess, in internet terms, Professor, is subscribe. Which oh my god, you mean who would subscribe to this? What? I'm so used to you know not Speaking to an audience in those terms. What is you know, it's You know, we just never we would not have what was called the book You know, we have a book a couple times a year and some markets three times a year and you get to see what your audience look like.

1:59 You know, you get other indications here from podcasts, platforms, YouTube, you know, those sorts of things. And so, you know, it's like it's a new world in many respects. And there are many times during this show when I think I'm not ready to book. Well, hey, just speaking of booking, the Ozark Music Festival show is coming up Friday, where there were plenty of acts booked. plenty ahead of time, and some of them actually appeared, some of them did not, some of them were the correct genre for what was promised, and some were completely another genre.

2:44 So we're about halfway through that. We're getting to the interesting part where the felonies start occurring. And so you want to be you want to be here for Friday for that. And of course, a professor there was for every there for every pretty much every second of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was there. So were you there for pretty much every second of it? Well, not that much, really. I probably wasn't there between, let's say, two a .m. and and 10 a .m. I probably wasn't there during those hours.

3:19 That means you were there for every second of it because. You weren't there and everybody else was asleep, you know her or pounding down that final beer So yeah, you were there for every second of it next week We've got some neat things neat things What does that mean? We have some neat things. Neato. We have some neat things coming your way. We're going to talk about the upcoming elections. One of them is, with Republicans like this, who needs socialists? So we'll explore that on Monday. And Gavin Newsom.

3:58 We'll take a look into Gavin's background Wednesday after, not this show, a week from now. He looks like the Joker to me. Oh Gavin, he's so handsome and his hair is magnificent. Yeah, so I thought we might take a look and just see just where Mr. Newsom's coming from and what we think his chances are of becoming the Democratic nominee. So, hey, there's a little preview of things that are coming up. What we're doing today is gambling. Teenage gambling. We've got this proliferation of gambling apps that people can easily download on their phone.

4:44 It's mostly for sports betting, but there's also these other apps. There's Calchi. You can bet on almost anything anymore. And kids are really kind of into this. Previous generations had to find a bookmaker or go to a casino. Today, a teenager can lose tuition, savings, and family money while apparently doing nothing more than he's usually doing, looking at a phone. America. Everything is just going straight to hell, ain't it, Doc? Gosh, it sure seems like every time I turn around... Irretrievably and irrevocably.

5:18 Every vice known to man is just easy for kids to, you know, get their hands on. And my thesis is that America may be watching the beginning of a crisis it does not even yet know is really out there. Young people can be financially... and emotionally damaged before adult life even begins and the damage can remain invisible until the family is, you know, already involved because there are thousands of dollars in debt. There's a kid named... Yeah, the adults are all that drunk and producing more children.

5:53 Right, and not paying any attention. That's true. And so they've got their kids, you know, on their phones all the time. I watch kids babysitted by phones and iPads. constantly. I mean, they've got a phone in their head all the time. This kid, just for an example, his name is Ben. He started betting in the 11th grade and he had a private little habit. It escalated into losses reported at $100 ,000 or more before he had to enter recovery. So yet another reason for children to have to enter recovery.

6:28 The sales propositions that these apps sort of proffer is irresistible to young people. It's take a small stake, you get a large payoff, and knowledge of sports is presented as a financial skill. So the central distinction is most young betters will not develop a disorder, but the product creates a fast path from recreation to ruin. for the vulnerable. Here's a little taste of what it might be like to be an 11 -year -old gambler. The legalization of online gambling and sports betting in many states and all the advertising for it is raising fears that more young people are getting addicted.

7:12 Here's NPR's Sequoia Carrillo. Kim Friedenberg is a high school physics teacher in San Francisco. She's also the mom of two boys, which of course brought the usual anxieties and fears. She knows there are many, many ways that kids, especially boys, can find themselves in trouble before anyone even knows. Never once did I even think that I needed to say gambling. What she didn't know was that one day when her oldest son was 11, he was watching someone play video games on a live stream and clicked on a link in the comments.

7:44 It took him to an offshore online casino. There he got sucked into blackjack, poker, roulette, and he could use items from the video game as money. Soon he got hooked. But Freudenberg says no one knew. It's not like he was just holed up in his room 24 seven. Like he ran track. He played soccer. He was a great student. Quietly, her son became an addict, winning and losing money, selling things from around the house to keep up with his debts and then eventually stealing money from his parents. Her son ended up dropping out of college.

8:14 So there's a 11 year old kid who gets sucked into this. I don't know. You know, I mean, I know how I feel about it. It seems to me like it's a unforced air. What are we as a society making it easy for kids to get into gambling for? I mean, why is that happening? That's my chief feeling. Now, I think that people need to take personal responsibility for the things that they do. So I'm not going to just absolve people of their responsibility in gambling. But it seems like it's a little much for kids to be able to access these things so easily.

8:52 Well, I mean... It starts really early when they start playing video games when they're little bitty, you know, three, four years old, and you get the prize. You get the little loot box, you know, and the more you go along, the bigger your prizes get, the more. So that same concept, when he's 11, watching a gamer, is kind of the same way. They trade their skins. They trade one skin for another skin, and then they can win this other, and so it just, the transition. starts even before 11. It starts early on showing them how it works.

9:30 You know, that was an angle that I really hadn't thought about and should have was that, you know, they're playing video games all the time and they're winning little coins on video games. You know, the things you win on a video game. So why wouldn't this be an awfully easy, natural extension of those things? And So much more fun, because it's real, right? I mean, I might actually win some money here. Well, skins... I don't know why I didn't think of that, but I didn't. You know, the skins in their video games, those are worth real money.

10:04 depending on where you're at. So if you're trading skins out for something else, that's the same thing. I see. Yeah, well, that's a really good take on it. I mean, it seems like the natural progression of video gaming. Professor, what do you think? I think that human nature is self -serving, selfish. Superficial. I think all those things have to be fought for one to be a responsible individual, a responsible parent. That takes a lot of self -discipline and effort. I think all that is missing in a huge majority of parents and a huge majority of our so -called leadership class or politicians.

10:58 I think they're self -serving. They don't give a damn about the citizenry. some kid gambling, so what? Let's get out of here and go party. Didn't it seem to you as though, it hadn't been very long ago, previous generations of, let's just say, lawmakers, politicians, were very concerned about children's access to All sorts of vices. I mean, making it really hard to get your hands on, let's say, a beer. You know, you had to do some finiggling around to get yourself a beer, just a beer. Also had, you know, to finagle or to get yourself a copy of Playboy.

11:42 You know, those things were hard. You walk into a grocery store, they had to be covered. a certain way. You couldn't just see them on the stand, or at least that's the way it was. And gambling, I mean, that was something you kind of did with your buddies here and there. I'll bet you five bucks this or that. You didn't have it in your phone and you didn't bet on everything that was going on within a game. And so I think that things have obviously changed because we used to think a lot about what might happen with kids exposed to things.

12:15 And it almost seems like the way this is set up, it it almost seems like we want them to be involved in this to. I think I think the standards for I'll use the word normal change. They're constantly changing. It used to be if you were will use gay or lesbian or anything like that, that was kept in the dark. It wasn't normal. Now it's considered. normal so things are going to kind of things evolve no doubt about that but but it's becoming the normalization of of how things are and unfortunately yeah that's just That's what I think, anyway.

13:02 Well, coming up in the next segment, the product did not merely move online. It changed into something faster, more private, and more difficult to stop. You're listening to Doc G and the Discussance on sabbatical.

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How Betting Apps Turn Phones Into Bookmakers

16:34 animal, well, you're in the wrong place. You're on sabbatical with Doc G and the Discussants at the intersection of policy, politics, and culture. Have a question for your favorite discussant? Well, please visit us on the World Wide Web at thediscussants .com. The doctor is in. If you've got something you'd like to share with us, please do go to the website and pick your favorite discussant, write us an email, or leave us a gripe in Doc's gripe box. In fact, there's some gripes in there now. Probably better crack it open again and make sure that it doesn't get too dusty in there.

17:20 I don't know, we'd like to do that on Fridays and discuss this backstage. Sarah, as we went to the break, said something funny came to mind when I said something about a beer. Was it Pocahontas? Yeah. Yeah, it was Senator Warren and her. Get me a beer. Yeah. So that's why I started laughing. That came to my mind. The way you said it reminded me of her getting her beer. I think I'm going to have me a beer. I remember that. That's how she was going to be the con. man. There's you so far from that it isn't even funny.

18:00 We're talking about gambling apps and in kids and this is very easy for them to access. That's coming up in a segment or two but what's going on here is this is at a time when people are developing judgment. their planning, their impulse control, and their long -range decision making, they continue to mature into the 20s, and immediate rewards can overwhelm distant consequences. They're really not thinking about those things. Now, if they would have paid close attention to Doc G's Ten Rules for Success, they'd be having a little better time with that.

18:42 But apparently, that's not going on. Then there's this new betting. You can bet on anything. Parleys, they disguise very poor odds behind life -changing payouts. Bonuses, streaks, alerts, and risk -free bets is what these things are sold as. And the old bookmaker, the old bookie, he had a face and a location. The new bookmaker is private interface available in bed, in class, at work, and during every game. So you can make it bad about any time. I'm sure there's kids in school. that are the bookie for these kids that aren't necessarily old enough.

19:32 Maybe the bookie has an offshore account or they have an older sibling that they're using their IDs for and stuff. And I would say that kids still play. place bets with quote bookies at school. Yeah, I'd imagine that that goes on. But I kind of wonder why? Why would you use a bookie when I've got my phone in my pocket and I can bet on anything? They had to do it themselves. They're going to have to have their ID, they're going to have to have go to some offshore account, or they're going to have to use Bitcoin or something like that.

20:07 But they're doing all these things. I mean, they are. Yeah, if they want to do that, they're going to get it done anyway. Yeah. It seems like It's just super easy to find your way into bedding. Let's take a look at a couple more ideas from, you can't see this going on. Parents are having a tough time with it. Kim Freudenberg wishes she had seen some of those warning signs, but even for a veteran teacher, often online gambling can look the same as texting a friend or watching a video. If my kid had to get in a car, drive to a bank, take out money, drive to a casino, go into the casino, show an ID at the door, he probably wouldn't be a gambling addict.

20:56 He wouldn't have been able to do all of that. After a few attempts at rehab, her son is now back at college and doing well. She helped start a support group for parents, and every week their numbers keep growing. And she fears that all over the country, there are lots more parents just like her. The tsunami is, it's like on the horizon, and it's going to be really, really bad. So they're forecasting that this is going to be a huge problem. Now, I've been talking about this for quite a while. Yeah.

21:27 There's just no way that we aren't going to see a whole lot of kids in a whole lot of trouble over this thing, because it's just so easy to do. And the adults have a tough time knowing when to say when to gambling. Well, again, you see these these kids see their parents do it all the time. Absolutely, they're doing it. And they're betting on every little thing. Who will commit the first fumble? There's a bet for that. Who will get the first field goal? There'll be a bet for that. Who will hit the third home run in this game?

22:10 There will be a bet for that. Now, it'll be a very small bet, a dollar or two, and it may pay off. $1 ,500 for the third hole. I don't know, maybe $20 ,000, whatever. But the odds of you actually winning that are so long that you shouldn't take the bet. And what they don't understand is the better the payoff, the longer the odds. I think they do understand it, but it's very easy to say, well, it's just $5. It's just $2. And especially when you're a kid, you're not really working for your money. Maybe you've got a trust account maybe you're saving for college or maybe you've gotten it you know your parents have established a bank account for college that you have access to and that's what's happened here is that you know micro betting eliminates that reflection it's just another pitch or possession or a play becomes another wager within just seconds after making the last one parlay's disguise very poor odds behind life -changing payouts like we talked about.

23:18 Bonuses, streaks, alerts, and risk -free language keeps the phone active. The old bookmaker, he, you know, you knew where to find him, but, you know, when you're by yourself in your bedroom, who's policing that? Now, I know that in my child -rearing there was not a a private line in a room. There was not the cell phone, and not until much later. I was concerned about the ability for the world to come in and communicate with my young person. I didn't want that. I didn't want... any chance of someone being able to communicate, but that doesn't seem to be a huge issue with people anymore.

24:19 Again, I told a story, I can't remember what show it was, about my brother. had a little kid coming down the street at two years old with a phone in his hand. And he couldn't come to my brother's house because his kids couldn't have phones, right? He didn't want them to have phones. But at two years old, there's a kid who's got a phone. What's going to happen? I mean, he's going to be in trouble with that phone because he's going to be able to interact with the world. I think parents typically, when it comes to phones, are more concerned with or typically have been more concerned with the sexual predators, not even considering this type of situation.

25:02 I think that's true. So why did they have a phone is my question. If that's your concern, which is probably it's a more, I don't know, present and maybe more dangerous concern than the bedding. Right. But so why, why, why, why do you Why do you give a child a telephone and an outside line to the world that nobody's really monitoring? I think most parents of younger children that have the phones do it for. so that they can access the parent if they need them immediately for emergencies. You know, hey, Mom, I'm done with basketball practice, come pick me up.

25:48 Hey, Dad, you know, soccer practice is over, come pick me up, or I'm sick, come pick me up. So I think they're they've designed them. I think they they started it for Emergencies and it's kind of progressed from there. So I heard that as a school superintendent I banned them in school because You know, I had concerns all the concerns we're talking about now But there were other concerns one of those concerns that never came up That I was always surprised never came up. Hey, you know, I can the the kid in the second hour class can take pictures of the test and Email them all over the school for everybody else's test they can communicate in ways that is hard for the teacher to understand or even know that's going on.

26:40 Same thing with administration. And we had gotten along for decades without these things in class. If you needed to communicate outside the school, you could come and use the phone in the office. You could get a phone call there if it was an emergency, which was really about the only reason why you needed to receive a call during school hours. It just was not needed and it introduced a whole lot of problems. Well, now, all of a sudden, that's the right thinking. I had problems at the time instituting that policy.

27:20 Now, legislatures and states are saying we're not going to allow cell phones in school. Right, part of that's probably AI related as well, don't you imagine? I think that they finally saw that this is doing no one any good. And when you're texting your buddy in this class and you're doing nothing but looking at your phone the entire time and you're able to connect again with the entire world, it's just not conducive to concentration whatsoever. And to me, that was obvious. It was an obvious problem and that needed to be dealt with.

28:01 When we come back in the next segment, what does a parent do? What are you to do? After the break, the kid's money is gone. What happens when he begins reaching into the family's money? You're listening to Doc G in the Discussance. At the intersection of policy, politics, and culture, you're on Symbatical with Doc G in the Discussance. Let's step aside for a few brief messages. Weekend project, emergency repair, full renovation? Mill Creek Hardware has the tools, supplies, and practical advice to help get the job done and done correctly from Plumbing and electrical to outdoor equipment and seasonal supplies, Mill Creek Hardware believes customer service still matters.

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When a Child’s Gambling Reaches the Family

31:40 Please, you're on sabbatical with Doc G. And the discussants. We're talking points and cliches are unwelcome. For example, when we say at the end of the day, it's getting dark outside. We've been talking about young people and gambling and gambling apps and some of the problems that it's causing out there and I wanted to do this show because It's bothered me for a long time It was clear to me that this was going to be something that children could access relatively easily And that does seem to be the case and before anybody can catch it or knows what's going on, a lot of times a whole lot of money is gone.

32:42 And so it's sort of a concealed progression. So it goes from the kid's savings to then borrowing money from maybe his friends or people who will give him some money. And I say him because it's mostly young men that are involved in this. then it goes to tuition or loan proceeds before anybody catches it, then family money, then fraudulent money, and then usually somebody discovers what's gone on. So a minor or a young adult can use a parent's stored credit card on a website, bank password, payment app, identity or sportsbook account without leaving any physical evidence.

33:24 When they say physical evidence, I'm guessing receipts. But I think if you checked your accounts, there'd certainly be evidence of these things. And as I did the research here, I'm looking at so they can use the bank password. Do your kids know what your bank password is? They don't even know where my bank accounts are. Right. And so how is it that these people are giving their kids their bank password? What is that about? I don't understand. I mean, there's a reason why there's a password. You give it to your kid.

33:58 I don't know what that must be. Families may discover the problem through a failed tuition payment. Or maybe, you know, the kids got to pay rent or a mortgage payment, their own rent or mortgage payment that doesn't go through. And even though they are not seeing the gambling happening themselves. So, you know, this is sort of where it turns up after the problems gone on for a little while. And again, you know, I don't want to I don't want to put all the responsibility on gambling apps or. Society generally, I think that a lot of young people that are doing this know the difference between right and wrong.

34:41 I don't want to absolve them of responsibility, but this is a vice, and it was recognized as a vice for years and years and years, along with drinking, the use of drugs, those sorts of things that people realized would ruin your life and could do so fairly easily. And so these are things now, including drug abuse. You can order what you'd like on the telephone. It'll show up, what, via some delivery system now, DoorDash or whatever else. You could do all this from the comfort of your home, on your phone.

35:17 Folks don't know anything about it for a long time. I don't know, the professor has said that he thinks that this is a lack of parenting. I think that that is true. Anything strike you as we've gone through this, sir? Some might say that I'm being a cynic or a pessimist, but I think I'm just simply being pragmatic. But it's great that we have all these different illnesses in our society that we can discuss that allows us to produce a podcast. However, as we've said before, we're not really solving any problems here.

35:59 All we're doing is observing and commenting on it. I think everything is very gradually, not necessarily steeply, but very gradually spiraling down the quality of society. I said before, I think people involve themselves in, well, they look at sex as an inexpensive pleasure. They involve themselves in it. Then a child happens. and they're not really interested in raising a child. Here comes another one and another one. Now we've got this bunch of kids and the parents are off somewhere else at a pool party drinking at a neighbor's and the kids are God knows where on their phones gambling or whatever they might be doing and it just seems like we've got a societal commiseration of mediocrity and BS.

36:47 It just seems like it's... It's going downhill more and more and more. As I said, it's fine that it is because it gives us something to talk about. But I don't think there's any solving it. I think it's just going to get gradually worse and worse. It's not that it's a big deal because it is so gradual that we don't really perceive it as any kind of an increasing emotional pressure on us or anything like that or imposition on us. It's it's so gradual. But if you compare today to like 20 years ago, then there is a big difference if you could take a 20 year step, but luckily it was done incrementally.

37:24 So I don't, I don't, there's no solving it. I don't think there's any solving it because more and more kids are being created by people that don't necessarily want them. But they, as I mentioned in a previous episode, I was talking to a night manager of a restaurant once he was about to get married. And I said, you're going to produce any kids? And he says, yeah, I will. Yeah, probably. And I said, why? And he said, well, it just seems like it's this. the thing to do that's the way it operates so is that a reason to have a baby because it's the thing to do that's the way society operates but that's the way society operates and here comes the baby more and more and more until we have a glut of people and the whole thing is sinking into it it's the big tent it's a tent of it's a circus tent of clowns and sardonic mediocrity i i don't know doc i don't that there are no solutions.

38:16 All I can do is observe from my personal view that I just think everything is sinking like the Titanic, very slowly, very slowly. Nothing's getting any better. Now, yeah, technology has improved. There's no doubt about that. But what has it brought with it? What kind of side effects and ramifications? Airline pilots now have become computer operators instead of being able to actually fly the plane in case they need to. I mean, you name it. I don't see the technology great. We have medical breakthroughs.

38:51 I don't know how I would access any of them. For a while, I was thinking, wow, I'm glad I'm alive now instead of back in the 1800s. Now I realize, well, it doesn't do me any good. I mean, if I were an illegal immigrant, I could access medical attention. But so the kids gambling, the phones, the phones become more sophisticated. There are more and more gambling schemes out there because the people behind them are bringing in dollars, of course, or they wouldn't be doing it. And the kids are, if you want to call it victimized, call it whatever.

39:19 I don't think they care a whole bunch. They just go out and use some recreational drug with a buddy or a girlfriend or whatever. And on it goes. So, Doc, it doesn't look good to me. It looks like it's a very gradual, almost painless, it's so gradual, hopeless situation. Yeah, it's the frog in the pot with the heat on underneath of it. It's doing its backstroke while the water continues to rise and pretty soon it's cooked. Are you sure it's not the turd in the punch bowl? Well, you know, one of the things that you just said, you know, so last week Metta, or a couple weeks ago now, They agreed to a trillion dollar payout, was it not?

40:06 Right. And they had indicated before they decided to make that payout that they were going to fight this. And they said that in several statements. And all of a sudden they decided to settle. And they settled for an incredible amount of money. And that is sort of for me, some evidence of what you were saying just a little bit ago about these apps and making money and maybe not really caring whether these kids are doing it or not, because I don't think that Zuckerberg cared at all whether kids were on Facebook.

40:50 was just to look good let's let's do this and this will look good and then get the powers that be off our backs for a while here at meta so just whatever burn a billion no big deal and let's get back to it yeah right and that's that's always been his uh operating procedure is to basically addict people to the uh platform to facebook to you know it's very blame him it's human nature why not it makes more money for him that's why he's there to pull in all the money he can possibly pull in Everyone else be damned.

41:21 That's human nature. That's why they paid it out. They're going to make more money right back. So what's the big deal? Yeah, but I think that it's really a good point that I'm not sure that these sports books much care. They're talking about getting a more stringent way of providing your age, of proving your age. I believe it when I see it and the thing with these is kids will learn a way around those things. There's always a way around those things. I laugh at parents who have bought the latest phone with the latest protection and I'll know exactly what they're doing on their phone.

42:09 Ha ha ha. Maybe that phone. How about the phone they bought at Dollar General when they got off the bus in the morning? They're not going to buy a phone at Dollar General. But there's a phone that they can own that no one knows anything about. But Junior's iPhone 18 is on his bed. He's got the Dollar General phone with him. Yeah, right. I mean, he's got as many phones as they need to do the business that they want to do. So, you know, credit cards, parents are not automatically liable merely because they are parents but when their card joint account or credentials fund the bets the family may lose real money while authorization and reporting deadlines are disputed.

42:51 Credit cards generally offer stronger federal limits for unauthorized use and debit card exposures depend heavily on rapid reporting and can grow after statutory deadlines. So even being a minor You know, that may make some of the contracts that these young people are getting into voidable, but it does not excuse theft, false identification, or identity misuse. Restitution or juvenile criminal consequences can follow these things. When we come back, we'll look at the leagues and the apps. And we've already talked about it.

43:33 They all receive money. Who has an incentive to protect the young better? You're on sabbatical with Doc G and the Discussants. The discussion continues in just a moment. While we take a break, go to docgandthediscussants .com. Meet the Discussants. Catch another episode. Support the show. Visit the shop. Or tell your favorite cast member exactly what's on your mind. Doc G and the Discuss Acts on sabbatical back after this Some of our best ideas come from the people listening If you have a question a comment a show idea or maybe someone you'd like us to interview We'd love to hear from you Just visit docgandthediscusses .com, click contact and choose your favorite discussant from the drop down menu and send us your message.

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Who Has an Incentive to Protect Young Bettors

47:01 found your way back Excellent You're on sabbatical with Doc G and the Discussants Here's the doctor

47:19 Kim Freudenberg wishes she had seen some of those warning signs, but even for a veteran teacher, often online gambling can look the same as texting a friend or watching a video. If my kid had to get in a car, drive to a bank, take out money, drive to a casino, go into the casino, show an ID at the door, he probably wouldn't be a gambling addict. He wouldn't have been able to do all of that. After a few attempts at rehab her son is now back at college and doing well. She helped start a support group for parents and every week their numbers keep growing.

47:55 And she fears that all over the country there are lots more parents just like her. The tsunami is it's like on the horizon and it's going to be really really bad. This is something that researchers are starting to take a look at. It surprised me that it hasn't, you know, received a whole lot of attention, a whole lot of papers. There are starting to be some papers out there about this because it's just so easy to access. It's mainly boys, right? Yeah. I mean, that's typical, right? Right, yes. But with Couchy and some of these other platforms where I can bet on anything, I would suspect that there are going to be, you know, more females because Is there a certain type of personality that's more likely to do this?

48:41 Wrong person to ask that question. There are folks who believe that there are quintessential addictive personalities, but a lot of people who are addicted to other substances are not. Addicted to gambling and and vice versa. So right, but you know, they they have their own chapters gamblers anonymous those sorts of things and and I you know, I've seen it in my own experience with acquaintances who have decided that you know, they're going to Gamble and then they get in deep enough that they're going to gamble to get it all back and they make it worse and then pretty soon, you know, yeah, and and it's tragic to watch somebody lose everything that they've that they have.

49:32 So we always have statistics or people talking about how you know if kids don't get help for this they'll commit suicide. I wonder what the numbers are for. gambling that's a good question for research because this is as that person said in that last actuality they're expecting a tsunami so am I I've watched you know what what moves young people you know the easy ways they get in trouble are usually the easy ways they stay in trouble and with the exponential growth of these betting apps And a lot of these commercials are really targeted towards younger men, really trying to tell them that their knowledge of sports is a financial skill.

50:27 And I see a lot of problems here. Sports books, leagues, broadcasters, and states all participate in a system built around greater engagement and wagering volume. And the prediction markets create a new fault line. People ages 18 to 20 reportedly wagered billions through the platforms available below conventional sportsbook age limits. Responsible gambling puts the warning and the onus on the customer, but the operator may possess better evidence than the family that the customer is chasing losses.

51:06 So what would we do to protect them? What is meaningful age verification, restrictions on credit card funding, betting, deposit and loss limits, cooling off periods, micro bet restrictions, enforcement innovations, one step. self -exclusion across platforms. That's when you basically take yourself out of the game, like has happened in concedos. You basically call them and say, don't let me in anymore. I don't know that any of those things are really aimed at kids because they're using other people's money anyway.

51:48 It seems to me like kids are really up against it in a lot of ways here now with the legalization of drugs, not just marijuana and other places, you know, much harder substances to the point where. No one's really thinking of drugs the way they thought about drugs even maybe 10 years ago where, you know, I'm going to have a serious problem if I'm involved with these things. Again, it's normal. That's what I'm getting at. And now it seems that it's normal that if I'm, you know, a teenager that I may have a bookie in my pocket and so do all my friends.

52:36 This is disturbing to say the least. This is money for nothing and your chicks for free. Exactly. And it's awfully hard to tell somebody that those chicks aren't really free and the money isn't really for nothing. I mean, once it almost seems like these gamblers might be of the same personality who would vote in communist officeholders. Well, money for free. I know there's a lot of, you know. It seems like there's a lot of, I'm seeing, now I'm not just talking about kids, but I'm seeing a lot of talk.

53:14 I'm involved in conversations with gentlemen, especially younger ones, who are very anxious to tell you about all the bets that they have going on any given Sunday afternoon or when the football season's going on. It's spooky, because it's not really the sport, I think, that is attracting the attention. I think without the gambling, it probably wouldn't be as popular with quite a few people. What are your odds in this situation, dude? All my kids do it, and when I say all my kids, even my daughter.

53:58 does online gambling. Now, she doesn't do quite as much, but the boys, they both do. Their friends all do. I mean, it's all the time. They do it all the time. That's exactly what I'm talking about is it seems like there's people of a certain age are now just. gambling you know they're gambling a lot and then and then there's then there's you know this younger kids coming behind him and as you said a little earlier Sarah they're seeing this and of course these are all kids that have kids now I say kids I shouldn't but you know younger people that have children I love the way that sleaze is made to look glamorous I enjoy that's entertainment yeah it's it's um it's really insidious over the last, I want to say about 15 years, the proliferation of vice that has become legal and really not much opposition to any of this anymore in any real way.

55:03 So when does adult responsibility begin? When does deliberate frictionless design become exploration. Can a state credibly regulate a product from which it collects substantial revenue? I think we talked about that a little earlier. There's incentive not to for certain. And a 19 -year -old may believe he's wagering $20 on football. He may actually be wagering his credit in the future, his education, relationships, and the beginning of an adult life. He may not know that until years. down the line when the game is over.

55:47 So I want us to plant a flag right here. I want to remember the date of the program. We're not claiming every young better where it's going to be ruined. That's not what I'm saying. But what I am warning is that America has created the conditions in which young people can quietly destroy their financial futures, reach into their families' futures faster than anyone around them maybe could ever have predicted. So, you know, if you've got young people, if you are a young person, this is yet one more danger that maybe you ought to be thinking about a little bit, along with a long list of other things.

56:29 be about as well gosh I sound like you know your Debbie Downer hey what a square I mean Wow Debbie Debbie Debbie Debbie Debbie Downer I think I am I think I actually am I mean I caught myself there it's like why you know You're supposed to be cool. What's wrong with you, man? Everybody's gambling. Everybody's doing it. I will say, I asked my teenage grandsons about it. And they both say that they don't do it. They don't know anybody that's doing it. But we'll see. The evidence has been examined.

57:16 The assumptions have been challenged. The talking points have been returned unopened. If you agreed with everything you heard, we may have failed you somewhere. If you disagreed with everything, at least you were listening. Visit DocG and the Discus Ents online. Send us a question or a gripe to Doc's gripe box shop, the store, or suggest a subject. Until next time, the Doctor is out.