Can the WNBA Define a Woman?

The WNBA’s Problem: What Is a Woman?

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0:57 So good to have you back with us for this Monday show. And I want to thank everyone who's downloading us, listening, and recommending us. Man, it's... Really starting to snowball out there a little bit, and we really appreciate it. One of the things that I wanted to mention before we get into the heart of things today is we don't do a lot of talking about, oh, supporting the show, things like that. We have spot sets that do that for us. That's what they're supposed to do. But while it's on my mind, because, you know, there's a critical mass, it seems to be forming the sponsorship opportunities.

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2:16 So join our show. We'd really like you to take advantage of that opportunity. So we did some shows about a week ago about transgender surgeries for children. Then we extended those thoughts to just the Hippocratic Oath in general. We have some comments from Mr. Kennedy a little later talking about his thoughts and feelings on that. But what we're looking at today is the WNBA. And the core question being, can the WNBA remain a women's league while refusing to define the category it exists to protect?

3:07 The WNBA says only women may play, but it does not publicly say what a woman is. Sophie Cunningham questioned the boundary and fans supporting her were confronted or told to cover their shirts. Ennis Cantor -Freedom tested the rule and was removed from a game after a player confronted him. So going back to Sophie, She publicly opposed males competing in girls and women's sports. Her position produced protests, rallies, and pressure inside a league closely identified with LGBTQ politics. Then a little while later in Seattle, two teenage girls wore XXXY athletic shirts to a game.

3:53 They were confronted by a Seattle Storm minority owner. Her name is Celeste Keaton. She's the one who confronted them, and the league later fined her and barred her from five home games. In Atlanta, the WNBA security told a mother and a 17 -year -old daughter to cover an XX, XY shirt, or leave. The league later admitted this should not have happened, and a pro -trans shirt was also covered. Very lately in Chicago, Natasha Cloud approached and shouted toward Cantor after she scored. He stood and stepped toward the court and security immediately separated them and removed him.

4:42 His shirt read this, woman, noun, adult, human, female. So the pattern is the league corrects the most visible excesses afterward. but sex -based dissent repeatedly becomes the conduct treated as dangerous and offensive. What I wanted to do was just play, just take you down memory lane a little bit and then we'll discuss here in the studio. We came out of Seattle and where storm minority owner Celeste Keaton was suspended five home games after confronting two teenage fans during a game. The girls were holding signs supporting Sophie Cunningham following her comments about transgender participation.

5:24 Women sports and the WNBA ruled that the interaction violated its fan code of conduct. The storm issuing an apology for the incident afterwards. WNBA Security Under Fire After Sophie Cunningham Fans Told To Cover Up T -Shirts At Fever Dream Game A new controversy is exploding around the WNBA after a mother and daughter attending the Indiana Fever Atlanta Dream Game in Atlanta said arena security confronted them over the shirts they were wearing in support of women's sports. The incident reportedly happened during Sunday's Fever Dream matchup on August 16, 2020.

6:00 According to the women's account, they had purchased expensive floor -level seats and were attending specifically to support Sophie Cunningham and women's sports. They said they were not chanting at players, holding disruptive signs, or interfering with the game. Instead, they alleged that security approached them during overtime because of their XXXY athletic shirts, which were connected to the ongoing debate surrounding sex -based categories in women's sports. The women said security told them the shirts were considered offensive and gave them a choice, cover the shirts with Atlanta dream wellness and health night t -shirts or leave the arena.

6:42 Reports say they ultimately covered the shirts because they wanted to remain inside for the final minutes of the game. One of the women reportedly questioned why a message about biology in women's sports would be considered offensive. They also claimed another fan wearing a protect trans rights message was similarly asked to cover or conceal the shirt Raising questions about how the arena was applying its clothing rules And I was like, I am not trying to sleep with her. I'm just here to protect women and support her.

7:33 So that was last cut from Kantner during the interview where he was asked what cloud said to him, which was blatantly sexual and I guess sprinkled with so many expletives that basically we can't talk about it again. But there's a lot to talk about here. My first idea is, why did Cloud approach a seated spectator? I mean, I've got so many other questions, but why did she approach a seated spectator? And why was he the person that was removed for that altercation? Is adult human female prohibited speech?

8:20 a policy position or an attack? And does the Women's League protect women who defend a sex -based category? It sort of seems that maybe they don't. I don't think this is all that complicated. Sarah, you're an athlete. You were an elite athlete. A female athlete, at least. That's how you certainly appear and identify. How do you? Well, I thought Cheryl was a guy. I'm identifying as female today. I'm glad to hear that. So you can speak to this from a position of, well, I shouldn't even say that, should I?

9:09 You can speak to this from a position of no and authority. But how does this strike you, this whole sort of situation? Can honestly say I I don't understand it at all As a female I don't want to participate against males the advantages are obvious But I don't understand I Don't even know how to say it why it has to be so aggressive Why do they have to be so aggressive and why is it only the one side seems to have a say in it? Well, you're in luck because on the Wednesday show, Doc G is going to explain all this.

10:01 Okay, great. So, you know, that question that, you know, I can help with. But would you have considered this outrageous? Well, yeah. Yes. And so tell me how you would have felt about Lining up on a track in field meat, let's say the 100 -yard dash, and right next to you is a 6 '5 male that you know is a male in pigtails. Tell me. I don't know. I might have had to laugh, first off, because it would be looking ridiculous. Do they not know that they look ridiculous? I mean, like Leah Thomas, for example.

10:41 Do they not know what it looks like? I personally think that it does look ridiculous. And I think that many people might say that there is an obvious misalignment of things here. I think it's very simple. I really don't know. Do they not feel embarrassed? I'm curious. That I can't answer. I think that maybe they should. I think that when they're that much better that I see that as something that maybe they should feel. Let's see what the professor has to say. Well, you know how when an individual has some sort of serious ailment, he or she might have to What's that word?

11:43 There's some word that means you're going to lie around and do nothing for a while while you heal. Convalesce. Exactly. Thank you. Perfect word. One has to convalesce for a while. And I'm thinking that since we're dealing with a lot of perverts and small minds here, certainly not everyone, but a huge percentage of perverts and small minds, then maybe to save women's sports, The women should just back off and say, we're going to convalesce. Here's your word, Doc Chief. We're going to convalesce for a while, and just let you men have it.

12:20 Just turn it over to the men with their fake eyelashes and their pretty lipstick and their blusher and all that stuff. Maybe stuffed bras, whatever. You name it. Let them have the court. And go ahead and have a good time, guys, for a while. And let's just see how... Yeah, that's my bird, Orville. He says, you're absolutely correct. Let's just let the men have the court for a while and do their thing and women just take a break. Back off from sports. I know it's difficult to conceive, but it may be necessary.

12:56 It may be part of the convalescence. Back off, let the men have it, and then let's see what the result is. I think perhaps that could lead to a healing. I think you're right on point here because when we come back, The WNBA's rule says only women may play. And two former NBA players asked the question the league had avoided. What does that mean exactly? You're listening to Doc G and the Discussants. The discussion

Who Gets to Play in the WNBA?

13:29 continues in just a moment. While we take a break, go to Doc G and the Discussants dot com. Meet the Discussants. Catch another episode. Support the show, visit the shop, or tell your favorite cast member exactly what's on your mind. Doc G and the Discuss Ants on sabbatical, back after this. Some of our best ideas come from the people listening. If you have a question, a comment, a show idea, or maybe someone you'd like us to interview, we'd love to hear from you. Just visit docgandthediscussants .com, click contact, and choose your favorite discussant from the drop down menu and send us your message.

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17:42 So, speaking of the rules, let's just put them out there. Article 8 of the CBA says only players who are women are eligible to play in the WNBA. It supplies no public definition, however, based on sex, gender identity, hormones or physical characteristics. So guess who tested that? Well... Cantor Freedom and Royce White. They declared themselves women and announced plans for the 2027 draft. Reports citing unnamed league sources say they are ineligible. The league has not publicly explained the SAT standard.

18:18 And they went a little farther this week and said they are ineligible because they are non -serious and making a mockery of things. I don't think it appears anywhere in the policy book. So basically what we're looking for here is now four doors for entry to the WNBA. Sex at birth, self -identification, medical criteria, or a subjective sincerity test. Every choice carries consequences but refusing to choose is itself a policy here. If self -identification controls, why do Cantner's and White's declarations not count.

18:56 Right. If sincerity controls, who judges an identity and by what evidence? If sex controls, why will the League not say so plainly? So here's the legal reality. Putting on my lawyer hat, which I don't have. I have a lot of credentials, but that one I don't have. But I'm going to do it anyway. Nobody has the right to. That's an ugly, ugly hat. Nobody has a right to be drafted. A formal ineligibility decision is different. It forces the League to identify and defend the classification that it itself implied.

19:35 So, looks to me like they've put themselves in a big old pot of hot water. Let's go to the professor and see if he can untangle this thing for us. It's so ridiculous, it's hard to even discuss it. It's so... Stupid. It just goes on and on and on. What's with these guys? Oh, I'm going to be a woman today. But yet, sir, I'm going to be a woman today. I mean, excuse me? Well, today I feel like a morphodite. And today I think I'm going to be a neuter. Or perhaps a parrot, an outspoken parrot. The whole thing is just so ridiculous.

20:19 I mean, come on, guys. Geez. I'm going to be a woman today. Geez. Back to you, Doc. I can't stand it. It's disgusting. It's stupid. It's mediocre. It's ridiculous. It is. Back to you. It is. That's exactly what it is. I am very thankful for these guys for pointing out this absurdity, because now they are going to, at the WNBA, have to come up with something a little better than their insincere and making a mockery. They were going to have to come up with, you know, contort themselves into all sorts.

20:58 of different shapes to figure out how they were gonna keep them out of the draft because they are so imbued with this LGBTQ plus rights idea that they are fully down with. If I say I'm a woman, I am a woman. If they say, well, if they believe that that's what they are, then they have to be recognized that way. And so these two gentlemen just said, fine. I'm a basketball player and today I've decided that I'm a woman I'd like to be drafted into your league. Now, let's talk about the finances of this a little bit.

21:37 If you're in the developmental league in the NBA, you might make $60 ,000, $80 ,000 a year if you're lucky. But in the WNBA, you can make a million dollars a year or more. So there's a financial opportunity that these guys might be missing out on because they're not going to be allowed to be in the draft even while they are fully compliant with policy. And I think that they've done a fantastic job of showing how ridiculous this thing is. And Sarah, again, you played basketball. You were, again, a great athlete.

22:20 I mean, that must just hit you in your heart, does it not? I mean, I I'm concerned for. the the women and the girls that are competing in the sports today because it basically Takes you backwards Back again to what it was before before women were allowed to play sports before title nine and they were definitely given the opportunity to participate in the same sports that males were but against each other right that was a long time coming because You know, people didn't want to make special leagues for women.

23:00 They really didn't want women in athletics at all. They really didn't. And so it was hard fought. And now the same feminists who should be advocating for that are actually helping destroy this. Here's a point that I was going to save for a little later. I want to go just a touch farther and sort of put the coup de grace on this thing. Okay. And I may just do that a few times before we're over with. Here's what this policy does to me personally. Let me preface this with a story. I was sitting in a group of lawmakers not very long ago.

23:45 while debate on the floor over a similar type of action was taking place. I was sitting next to a female legislator who told me while the debate was going on that trans women are women with no hesitation whatsoever. But then she added this. She said, but I would have hated to have to compete against one when I was in college in the same sentence, in the exact same sentence that she took the other side of the argument while advocating for this. ridiculous thing can have it both ways well they can if you're from a certain party and this person was having it both ways it's completely incompatible what i was getting ready to say was uh what it makes me do is i am forced to lie in some circumstances if I don't capitulate to saying this particular person because this person wants me to say they are a certain sex.

24:57 Even though I know they are not, that makes me a liar by, I mean, I'm compelled to lie. That is, in my mind, the definition of evil when we can cause people to lie on purpose. that we can legislate lying. And this is what's going on. Now that's the kind of thing that the professor loves to chew on. Let's see what he thinks. I don't want to chew on it. It's bitter. It tastes horrible. You're right. It is evil. Maybe this comes from the father of lies. Of course, we're not religious enough. Can I, I'm sorry to cut you off, but that's exactly my point.

25:44 Exactly my point. Can you imagine the glee that Satan would, how he would look at this? I guess I'm not, but I can't imagine how pleased he must be that a certain group of people can actually make another group of people lie. And they're happy to do it. I think this is the fundamental problem with this entire policy on top of the fact that it is completely ridiculous, completely ridiculous as the professor didn't suggest. I'm gonna take that as a axiom that it is ridiculous and maybe that's where the conversation should have stopped a long, long time ago.

26:35 I've chosen to give this a little bit of attention because I'm not so sure people have thought about it this way, that there's a group of people who are causing you to lie. They want you to lie. And if you don't lie, they're going to send some folks after you to make darn sure that you do. That's coming up in the Wednesday show. That actually exists, and we'll probably find out all about that after these shows. and have their way for a bit, and let's see how well that's received in our culture. I think that's exactly right, but I don't think they're going to have to back off.

27:32 I think they're going to have it taken from them pretty quickly. Women? Yes, if the WNBA and some other organizations don't quickly, if they don't quickly define what a woman is, I think these leagues are going to be taken over very quickly by men. So, yeah, that may happen quicker than anybody knows. The WNBA treats the definition as divisive, that what we're talking about is a divisive concept. The physical reason women's sports exist at all is not divisive at all. It's measurable. And when we come back, we'll talk about that.

28:18 You're listening to Doc G and the Discussants. The discussion continues

Biology, Advantage, and Why Women’s Sports

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30:59 You said you'd never buy your kid candy from the checkout aisle or forget extra diapers and never give in to a meltdown. You'd never lick your thumb to clean their face, never let them have too much screen time, and never bribe them for just one more bite. You say you'd never let them out in public without their hair brushed. never ever become a minivan mom, and you'd never give them your phone for a quiet dinner. So when you say you'd never leave your child in a hot car, no, it can happen. Cars get hot fast, and kids can be at risk in temperatures as low as 60 degrees Fahrenheit.

31:50 Never happens. Before you leave the car, always stop, look, lock. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Welcome back. So glad to have you along. Doc G in the discussions. I'm Doc G for the professor and Sarah. And today we're having a, I think, long overdue discussion on just what exactly are the facts, not the fanciful, I believe I am thus and so today. And you should believe that too, because I say so. Here's some basic facts. Male puberty changes muscle and strength, skeletal dimensions, hemoglobin, reach, and power.

33:04 Effects vary by sport. The distributions are still materially different. That is why women's records, rosters, and championships exist in the first place. Here's something that people talk about every once in a while. Back in 2017 when there was a whole lot of hoopla around the women's soccer team. You remember Megan Rapinoe and that crew that, I don't even think, did they win the gold that year? I don't think they won, but there was a lot of, maybe they did, but the US women's soccer team lost an informal training scrimmage five to two to FC Dallas' elite U -15 boys.

33:44 15 -year -old boys. So, you know, there's how much difference there is. There's an international celebrated women's soccer team, and they worked out against younger boys, which should tell you something in itself, and the boys whooped them and did so every once in a while. And there's finite opportunities out there for female athletes. For example, Chelsea Mitchell lost titles and awards in Connecticut track. Leah Thompson, who I think we're most familiar with, won the 2022 NCAA Women's 500 freestyle.

34:28 Riley Gaines at another meet was told Thomas would hold the single fifth place trophy after their 200. Freestyle try so that was that William was that William Thomas that deleted a few letters from his name became Leah yeah, yeah, yeah that was and she he and Riley games tied in a race for fifth place and the powers that be handed Mr.. Thomas the trophy and let him stand with the trophy instead of Riley, I guess, for some crazy quality notion, even though Riley had been working forever for it. And it's fairly well known that Thompson was a middle of the...

35:22 Mediocre male athlete at best, and then ended up winning the women's championship. Now, when he won the women's championship, was he still wearing his crotch enhancement prosthesis? I think that, I don't think that there was ever any surgery done. I mean, the way I've heard this testified about is that he would enter the locker room, a fully intact male, if I remember this correctly, and any female that had a problem with his appearance in the locker room, that was their problem, and it sort of still is their problem because of this make -believe world that we've created.

36:02 C .C. Teffler won the NCAA Division II Women's Hurdles title, a male, and Austin Kilips won the 2023 Women's Tour of the Gila Award, a bike race. Another one. So I want to talk about some research that I did, and I'm going to refresh, that showed that Published competition results showed transgender athletes winning far more often than a simple field size opportunity benchmark predicted. That, we're gonna preserve that finding as the reason for further study. I'm gonna refresh that. And we're gonna take a look at that once again, but the effect size there.

36:50 was very high. If I am a transgender athlete in a women's event, my chances of winning are far greater than any other woman in the field when you control for many different aspects.

37:10 If women need not prove every male will beat every female, they don't need to prove that. The question is whether male puberty creates enough advantage to defeat the purpose of the female category at all. If sex is irrelevant, why have a women's league in the first place? If sex is relevant, what justifies allowing identity to erase it? Just... who I say I am right now, erases the eligibility criteria and who receives the institutional benefit of inclusion and which women bear the loss of their places.

37:50 I see nothing positive in this. Nothing. And as a girl dad, I can tell you I would have been incensed to have had the gold medal that my daughter had been working hard for go to a male who just decided at the outside of the year that I'm going to compete against females. Yeah, Leah Thomas really in that situation with the swimming was nothing more than a transvestite, a man dressed like a woman. That's a good point. So that's another policy question. When do we move from that category to actual transgender?

38:36 I don't think that they would draw any lines. I don't think they would draw any lines at all. The line seems to be, I say so, therefore I am. Sarah? Yeah, I agree. I mean, he's right. It was more transvestite than transgender. I never really thought about that before. That's a very good point. It is. And so is that okay? Would the LGBTQIA plus XYZ, whatever it is this weekend, it does change week in, week out. Would they support that as well? I suspect they would. I don't think there's any bridge too far because I think there's a feeling that if we don't support everyone in every fight that I'll lose my fight at some point and I won't be supported in it no matter how ridiculous it is.

39:34 Why doesn't the WNBA support the same standards like tennis or some of the other sports are doing where you have testing to say you're male or female? Why do they not just use that? I mean, are they afraid because they've had so many quote questions about some of their current players being transgender? I think that maybe that's part of it. I think it's there's no desire on their part to question anyone's identity. and what they say they are at any instant in time, except these two former Indians.

40:34 They're not Republican voters, long and short of it. They know that Republican policy, and we'll talk about that in just a bit. is not at all supportive of this. There's no quarter given, especially by the Trump administration. And everybody here knows I have my differences. Are Democrats benefiting in some way? They get votes. voters uh they're not they accumulate voters who because of this transsexual craziness yes because you think they're going to vote for uh conservative policymakers who won't vote that way who won't support them and whatever they say we have a we have a lot of citizenry out there who is more or less advocating for perversion and crap well i don't think i don't think that that's you know i don't even know how you define perversion anymore.

41:34 I really wouldn't. I think it would be interesting to see what the latest editions of the dictionary say about it. That's very interesting. I'd like to know. I think we've just discovered another truism of the SDA, the Shithead Demon Rats of America. We've discovered another point in their platform. There is no more perversion that existed. Nothing is perverse anymore. I think we've hit on something there. I think about the only thing that they could agree with us on is maybe child molestation, those sorts of things.

42:09 But, you know, there's a lobby out there. I'm not going to accuse the DSA of that at this point. If the molester is an illegal alien, then they seem to be pro -child molestation. It would kind of seem that way. There was that one example they had not too long ago. They just don't want them thrown out of the country. I'm not going to hang their pro child abuse. I'm not going to hang that on them. But that is the effect of their policies a lot of times. While I hesitate to be that hard on them, I would have 20 years ago said that the kind of discussion that we're having, I would have five years ago said the kind of discussion we're having is outlandish and out of the question and, and God go think about something else.

43:01 But we're having that discussion. And so is there a bridge too far is the question. And I mean, if, if history as any judge, what will we be talking about in ten years from now? And there's not that many bridges left to cross, so it's a tough question. When we come back, the League can define its category now or allow courts, politics, and competitive incentives and public ridicule to define it later. We'll explore that when we come back. You're listening

The Choice the WNBA Can’t Avoid

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47:19 Now come back to Doc G and the Discussants on sabbatical. Hey, don't forget when you visit the website to do, as Lizzie just said, drop something in the old gripe box. We're going to break that open. On this Friday show, for the first time, gripes are starting to accumulate. Yeah. And a couple of them that I'm really entertaining and completely agree with at the same time. So, hey, make sure you're with us Friday because we're going to crack open the gripe box for the first... I can't even describe my own bit.

47:56 Doc's gripe box. We're going to crack that open for the first time coming up Friday. We're talking about this crazy stuff going on in the WNBA, but it's not just going on in the WNBA. It's going on in a lot of places, maybe just down the street in your favorite school. So let's see what could happen as we go forward. The sex -based rule. What if we just reserved eligibility for biological females using sex recorded at birth and a narrow process for rare disorders of sexual development? Now that would be clear, enforceable, and faithful to the category's purpose.

48:39 Very simple as well. Or... Can it? I mean, are people not able to change the birth certificate? That's in some states. They certainly can. Not in most red states, but that was... It's coming up in Wednesday's show, part of this policy advocacy circle. Self -identification. Maybe we could do it that way. That seems to be the rule right now. Accept asserted identity without an objective boundary. Cantor exposed the limiting principle problem. The League cannot guarantee that its future rosters will remain female.

49:21 I don't think it can. guarantee that they will remain female for any longer than about a half an hour the minute a male joins one of these rosters because the incentive will be I need to counter the 610 guy that's coming to play for the fever let's say so I'm going to go get a 611 guy to play against him for the Chicago franchise I don't know all these franchise names but You can see where it goes. We had a little example of that last week when they granted another year of eligibility to certain college players.

49:58 When one in particular decided he was going back to college to play for LSU and that ignited a storm of people looking for pros that maybe could play for and a couple three leagues now have made that impossible, which it should be. We're talking about college sports. Of course, there are people out there who say they should be able to play wherever they want to play and get paid for it. My arguments in those circles were everything was fine the way it was, and they're going to find out how not fine it is.

50:29 Now, same thing's getting ready to happen in the WNBA. If they decide to do anything other than define a woman as an adult, human, female, like was on Mr. Cantor's shirt, which should not be any reason to get. bounced out of the game. How about the medical threshold? How about if we use hormones or physical criteria? This concedes that bodies matter while forcing the league to defend an arbitrary competitive line sport by sport. So that's even worse. And how about selective sincerity? Now this is what our two NBA players were asserting.

51:10 They accept the identities. the League considers genuine and rejected perceived critics. This is the least defensible option, of course, and they really expose that, and I appreciate what they did there, subjective, political, and vulnerable to inconsistent application. So once they decide to do this, there's no way that they can apply this consistently across different players and situations. So what's the commercial consequence? Well, the NBA is growing right now. I think a lot of, as a result of, say, Caitlin Clark, Sophie Cunningham, some of these players that have emerged since.

51:50 Caitlin's been in the league, but now over this crapola that's going on. I think people are paying more attention to it. But growth does not eliminate the category confusion. A league that disciplines or alternates fans for, or alienates, is what I should say, fans for stating the premise of women's sports risks turning every game into a referendum on institutional honesty. to warm me out. I know. I'm exhausted. But going back to what the professor said quite a little while ago, we've created a whole lot of crap here and a whole lot of intellectual exercise over a very simple question that probably should have just been nipped in the bud a long time ago when somebody's looked at and said, you're ridiculous.

52:48 Just shut up. I think women should go on strike. Women athletes go on strike and make one of the stipulations for when you return that the people in charge, the coaches, whoever, are not advocates of this perversion, of these males that want to pretend they're females, the ones that say the Lord made a mistake. They need coaches and people in charge that don't advocate for that perverted policy. So on strike women. Let these people have it. And then let's, as I said, let's see how long that'll fly in this culture with no women's sports.

53:25 This is what happens to you when you take that attitude, Mr. Professor. She has recently become one of the most popular athletes in the WNBA. She's got a huge platform. She's got a podcast. She is suddenly now the darling of the right wing community. She uses that platform to punch down on a group of people who are just struggling to exist. And I find that to be despicable. Listen, she could say that I'm just doing this out of love or I'm doing this to protect girls and women, but her language is very telling and it's very obvious.

53:55 She wanted to make sure that she left you with the most stark and demeaning, demonizing image possible. Young, defenseless girls, big, hulking men in the locker rooms taking advantage of women in sports. And she should know as a female athlete, I would love to hear her thoughts on whether or not in her career, did she think it was trans women that were holding her back or did she think it was funding lack of opportunity and investment? So there was Jamil Hill. If you remember, she's been controversial.

54:27 She writes for the Atlantic. And there's what happens when you decide to take the other side of an argument. It becomes feminist, sexist, basically a Marxist anthem of oppressor versus oppressed and punching down. And see that at all where Sophie, she was speaking about what Sophie Cunningham had to say, that she was punching down at a vulnerable community. Not at all. I think she was punching up to help young females keep control of their locker rooms and their sports. Somebody needed to do it.

55:07 And I believe Miss Cunningham did a fantastic job of doing so. So there's another policy piece that we're going to talk about in the next show. how these people get other people to say the words that they want them to say. So how do we wrap this up? What is a woman? Well, who decides? What happens when a male sincerely claims the category? Well, we've seen what happens when males claim the category. They may claim an entire sports league before very long because competition will demand that that be answered.

55:47 What else can we say about it? Can a women's league survive without a female eligibility rule? I say that it cannot and it will not. So, for Sarah and the professor on Doc G, remember the truth is always more interesting than fixing and far more valuable than cliches or talking points. Remember to visit us at DocGInTheDiscussance .com and send us your gripes. We're going to crack open the gripe box starting Friday. Make sure to join us Wednesday when we are going to continue this conversation about the policy networks that have made these sorts of policies possible and how they continue to thrive and exist in this country.

56:34 The discussion may be over. but there is plenty more waiting for you. Visit DocG and thediscussants .com. Catch the latest episodes, meet the gang, suggest a future subject, leave a comment, and if something has truly managed to get under your skin, put it where it belongs. Doc's gripe box. You can also support the show, explore sponsorship opportunities, and visit the shop. docg and the discussants dot com until next time the doctor is out